https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/23/how-device-hoarding-by-americans-is-costing-economy.html "please, buy new phone. the economy is dying" is an incredible gaslight
@futurebird @ingrid The only thing that makes me want a new phone is that I can't get any degoogled build on my current one.
(And is everyone involved in GrapheneOS somehow blind to the fact that I don't want to buy a Pixel to install it because 👏 that 👏 means 👏 giving 👏 hundreds 👏 of 👏 dollars 👏 to 👏 Google?)
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid I'll look at importing a Murena phone when i need to upgrade. Which won't be for years.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid
GrapheneOS's goal is to be as secure and private as possible. To the extent that it's also degoogled, it's because accepting Google's control over Android creates problems for security and privacy.
If you think avoiding specifically Google at the expense of being much more vulnerable to everybody else is worthwhile, you're free to use another Android variant, but I honestly find it petty and demanding to be mad at a noncommercial project for not putting your preferences above theirs.
But, for the record, they have said they're working with another OEM (exactly who hasn't been announced) to make devices that meet their hardware security standards. This isn't a change in goal, of course—it was prompted by Google moving towards restricting third-party OSes on Pixels. You can't protect people's security and privacy if they can't actually run your software.
@hatzka @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid if you just want a de-googled third-party rom, lineageos + microg supports a broader list of devices
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid the focus of grapheneos is very specifically on resisting nation-state adversaries. they are very specific about requirements in their FAQ https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices:
Broad device support would imply mainly supporting very badly secured devices unable to support our features. It would also take a substantial amount of resources away from our work on privacy and security, especially since a lot of it is closely tied to the hardware such as the USB-C port control and fixing or working around memory corruption bugs uncovered by our features.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid there are a variety of "degoogled" alternatives with much wider device support, so it's a little bizarre to focus on grapheneos which is the single project with a much more specific charter than you describe.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid i'm also not sure if you're aware, but pixel devices can be bought secondhand without 👏🏻 giving 👏🏻 hundreds 👏🏻 of 👏🏻 dollars 👏🏻 to 👏🏻 google. the project maintains very specific support timelines and like everything else it does, it keeps its word. consider the FAQ's recommended devices:
8th/9th generation Pixels provide a minimum guarantee of 7 years of support from launch instead of the previous 5 year minimum guarantee.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid the project has a wealth of documentation and the maintainers are deeply devoted to achieving the most powerful forms of safety. they are working very hard to attract an OEM to produce a device to their specifications because of google's recent decision to avoid releasing driver source code. one reason this process is difficult is because law enforcement and military organizations worldwide are loudly opposed to the project, because it stymies their efforts to undermine the fundamental rights of their own citizens. this now puts the project between a rock and a hard place.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid i am a former employee of the department of energy and i deeply wish the government would invest in systems like grapheneos that achieve powerful and unique forms of safety for our citizens instead of directing its formidable research and development apparatus to undermine it.
@hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid
It's not that bizarre when people keep recommending it without mentioning the Pixel bit.
@hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid Yes. I respect the GrapheneOS project and its developers, but the more I looked at it, the more it wasn't what I want.
@dalias @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid yea honestly same, i respect grapheneos as a project, but i'm much more interested in postmarketos than grapheneos right now
@SRAZKVT @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid Yep. What I care about is having the control to fix things if I disagree with some decision the maker of the system made "in my best interests", and to recover data under fault conditions. Not to be locked out of my own device so that parties who would seize access through violence are also impeded.
And yes, pmOS. Android should be relegated to an application compatibility framework for running existing apps, individually & isolated. Not an OS. Everything about it is anti-user and fixing that is not tractable. At best you can play whack-a-mole putting bandaids on it.
@dalias @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid so something like waydroid ? but we can probably do better than using basically a full android in a container
@SRAZKVT @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid Waydroid is still a full Android system just containerized, which is the thing you ultimately don't want. Still all the badness of Android in global state, interaction between apps, etc. It's the same as how WSL2 is a regression from WSL1 - behaving as a Linux container/VM on Windows rather than individual programs running independently.
@dalias @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid yea, a proper compatibility layer is better
@SRAZKVT @hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid Basically it takes someone working out what the actual library linkages are, copying them out and nopping out whatever interfacing they do with Android system, and making minimal fake IPC/RPC endpoints for the guest app to interface with.
@dalias @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid i'm glad it exists and that we have such a wide range of projects for different use cases. a lot of the techniques from grapheneos end up elsewhere and i see that as a healthy ecosystem behavior
@hipsterelectron @LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid Yes. The parts of GrapheneOS I'm most excited about are the enhancements, components, and ideas that can trickle out into other systems.
@LinuxAndYarn
😂 wow, the number of personally hurt replies you got
@ProcessParsnip @futurebird @ingrid Yeah, but no one decided to reply more than once, so I didn't block anyone yet.
really? You're so gracious. I blocked two, I counted the person who replied in like an essay as multiple posts.
@LinuxAndYarn @futurebird @ingrid
Trust me, you are not the only one who wants another hardware vendor for graphene.
They're being very vague but Real Soon Now® or something I guess?
@ingrid
The problem with capitalism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
@Kruku @ingrid Oh cool -- so my efforts to make it easier for people to reuse stuff is killing the Wall Street economy? Excellent. (...and unexpected, given that nothing is anywhere near ready for deployment; perhaps it's working inductively or something. The economy is seeing my efforts and pre-emptively having a panic attack....)
“While keeping devices longer may seem financially or environmentally responsible, the hidden cost is a quieter erosion of economic dynamism and competitiveness,” she added.
brb smashing my desk
@tripleman we live in a society
@ingrid the dynamism will get sad.
@tripleman @ingrid what an absolute ghoul
"Will someone PLEASE think of the dynamism and competitiveness 😭😭😭Poor people and greenies are heartless."
@ingrid Americans can barely afford groceries right now and they're surprised we aren't buying new devices unless we absolutely have to? I asked one of my friends to refurbish one of my old laptops and I've had my refurbished Galaxy Note 9 since like 2017.
I've been on the brink of buying a new phone and this has inspired me to keep holing out longer. Thank you CNBC.
I'm dead set on spending not a dime I don't have to from now until 2029.
First, I won't contribute to an economy under an administration that denies climate change and wants to promote coal and oil.
Second, I'll have funds to invest/contribute/use when we're ready to start planning for and building the future again.
Save Every Dime Until Twenty-Twenty-Nine.
@ingrid @futurebird Medieval scribes refused to regularly replace their pens and parchments and writing desks with newer, more efficient models, and you see what happened to them.
@ingrid “device hoarding” wtaf?! This is one of the worst takes possible.
@ingrid
"The average American now holds onto their smartphone for 29 months, according to a recent survey by Reviews.org, and that cycle is getting longer. The average was around 22 months in 2016."
Who are these people? Nobody in my family changes phones that often. Well, except my one cousin.
I mean, I know I'm an outlier, with my pre-pandemic phone; but I can't imagine spending $1200 for a phone every 2 or 3 years.
@SuperMoosie @ingrid
That's a fair point. Looks like iPhone prices in 2016 were $400 to $1000 range, depending on model and options.
all technologies follow the S-curve. The phone is a platform for delivering apps. As a standard (for delivering apps) you don’t want a lot of change. The innovation will be in the apps now.
Cell networks have to throttle the entire network to accommodate slower devices? News to me. What a shit article.
@Kuniti_shino
Well… It is the US after all \s
@dzwiedziu @Kishi @ingrid this has nothing to do with any country in this shitty world in this shitty realm
@ingrid I was somewhat taken aback to learn that there was an organised campaign in the US circa 1920 to get people to stop being thrifty. In 1921, businesses in New York "founded a National Prosperity Committee to combat all forms of frugality."
(p221 of the book The Care of Things has some details)
@ingrid who will think of the poor widdle wall stweet finance bwos
@ingrid proud 56 month “hoarder” here, those 29 montherfuckers are capitalist whoreders
@ingrid So goofy. I bought an iPhone 4 in 2010. I kept using it until I destroyed it by accident in 2013. Got an iPhone 5. Used that until 2019, got an iPhone 7. Still using the iPhone 7, it’s fucking fine. IMO except for the cameras, smartphones haven’t noticeably increased in quality since that first iPhone 4 I got 15 years ago, the apps are merely more bloated now.
@sidereal
I bought a new phone this year because my old phone seemed to finally be dead (I later revived it but it's still uhh.. decrepit 😊). The camera in my new phone is absolutely rubbish compared to my smashed up broken old phone!! 😭 When I want to take a good photo I go back to my old phone still :/
@ingrid
@ingrid
"device hoarding?"
Is this a suggestion I give away my older devices more effectively so even fewer people need to buy new ones? Because that's the only correct way this could be called "hoarding"
I can think of a hoarding that's hurting a lot of people too.